Women In The Thick Of It: Lucinda McKimm
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I must admit, I was pretty excited when Lucinda agreed to be a part of this interview series. Her wonderful podcast (and Substack by the same name)
has become a firm favourite of mine and in many ways, listening to the podcast feels a bit like a punctuation point in my week. I actively look forward to seeing new episodes drop and I’m always inspired by the stories shared by her guests.But aside from the fabulous interviews Lucy shares, I feel that on a broader scale, her work is helping to shift the dialogue surrounding motherhood and how we make work, work. Put simply, the patriarchal society our generation is working hard to dismantle continues to do a disservice to mothers and parents across the board. But by shining a light on these issues and providing a platform for a diversity of women to share their experiences of work and parenthood through Ready Or Not and Witching Hour (where Lucy banters with her cousin, Loz)—I feel this conversation is finally gathering some momentum. And it’s wonderful to witness.
Alongside work, Lucy is also a mum of two and speaks honestly about her own experience of striving to find that somewhat nebulous work/life balance we all crave. Here, she shares what being ‘in the thick of it’ means to her and how becoming a mum has been both the greatest joy and greatest challenge of her life…
What comes up for you when you think about being ‘in the thick of it’? What does it feel like for you?
The biggest challenge in mine and my family’s life coincided with the exact timing of becoming a mother. I think if the Lucy of my twenties knew what she’d have to navigate in her early thirties while fumbling through motherhood, she’d be speechless. I don’t feel sorry for myself, there’s people close to me for whom the challenge is greater, but being in the thick of it feels like navigating the huge emotions of motherhood alongside these challenges that people I love are facing. It’s shocked me into adulthood and the realities and heartbreaks of life in a jarring way.
As an antidote to that, my mind is now more open, I understand the human experience on a deeper level, I am stronger, and I appreciate the moment more.
Was there a moment or perhaps a transition in your life that made you feel as though you were truly in the thick of life?
Without a doubt, motherhood has made me feel like I’m in the thick of life, in both the best and most challenging of ways. I remember the reality of responsibility hitting me square in the face, and I wasn’t prepared for that. This isn’t all negative. Motherhood is quite literally the greatest joy of my life, but I think the responsibility of being a mum directly correlates with being in the thick of it for me.
As someone who resonates as a creative, how has your creative practice changed over the years? What life transitions or transformations have made an impact?
I think that I can be creative but I have never really identified as ‘a creative’. I think this is quite literally because I’m no good at art? Ha! I’m not sure it really has changed, but perhaps the shift for me is that I feel everything more deeply after giving birth to my son and daughter, so perhaps as a result, the way I write and interview is more emotionally charged and explores deeper feelings.
If you take a look at your creative practice at this very moment, how do you make space for it in your current season of life? Do you feel as though you’re in a season of creativity?
I am four weeks into the newborn phase with my second, and I feel the exact same way that I did the first time around: very passionate about working on Ready or Not and Witching Hour, but otherwise, really wanting to be in motherhood. I remember in the newborn days of Ray, the idea of ever engaging in paid work again felt awful, and I am sort of in that place again. I don’t want to work on anything other than my own writing and podcast production work, but I know there’s a good chance that’ll change.
When Ray was around six to eight months old, I wanted a little bit more for myself—a bit more freedom and some time to work. I’ll be interested to see if this shift occurs again with Posie. I think it will.
At the moment, creativity looks like continuing to work on Ready or Not and Witching Hour, but otherwise, reserving every other bit of creativity for my mothering. This doesn’t mean finger painting and creating obstacle courses and the healthiest, most delicious banana bread for my son. If it does for you, that’s incredible. For me, it simply means being there and taking it all in.
For many, the concept of being ‘in the thick of it’ illustrates the juggle between the different facets of our lives—family, friends, motherhood, career, creativity, self-care etc—so I’d love to know how you give yourself the grace and space to nurture the various areas of your life?
I’m not sure I know how to give myself grace just yet. I hated that I was often cancelling plans with my friends who live in the city during my second pregnancy, but I’m also proud of myself, because I’m definitely getting better at boundary setting. The paradox of this is not lost on me—mothers often get better at setting boundaries when they’re in the thick of it and it feels like we’re finally being selfish. In reality, we’re still doing it for someone else: our kids. This isn’t a bad thing, but it is interesting. We’re so terrible at looking after ourselves for no reason!
In moments when you’re feeling overwhelmed or perhaps feeling the itch of burnout due to being ‘in the thick of it’, what are some of the rituals or self-care practices that you turn to?
Literally just cancelling everything social and acknowledging that I am tired and need a rest.
If we examine the concept of being ‘in the thick of it’ from a more societal level, it seems that it’s women who are feeling this the most. Why do you think this might be the case? What do you think needs to be done on a broader scale to help redress this imbalance?
If I look at a mother-father dynamic, there’s so much focus on mothers needing more support, and this is of course valid. But for mothers to be able to feel supported, we need support for dads, too. I want to see the culture around fathers taking parental leave actually change so that dads and secondary caregivers start taking up the space normally occupied by mothers: daycare drop offs, playgrounds, parents groups, the list goes on.
Once we see that becoming the norm, I think a lot of positives flow on from there.
Do you think that we become better equipped to deal with the ‘thick of life’ as each year passes? Has this been true of your experience?
I think so, but life and parenting is always changing so there’s always a new challenge.
I definitely feel more confident with baby number two, so perhaps that counts for something. I’ve done a lot of growing up in the last few years, but I’m not so sure if that’s been circumstance or age driven.
I’m a huge fan of your podcast, Ready Or Not, and love the diverse range of women you’ve spoken to so far. My first question is, what inspired you to launch the podcast and focus on this specific topic? Was it something that you were grappling with or considering in your own life?
Thank you! I think I was one of those people that simply always wanted a baby and career in equal measure. I knew that mothers were engaging in paid work, but I couldn’t quite figure out how they did it and how they felt about it. What were the struggles? What does society need to do differently to support them? How did they go to work after little to no sleep? I needed someone to answer these questions for me, so I started asking them.
And secondly, is there perhaps a piece of advice or a tip you’ve picked up from one of your guests that you’ve now implemented in your own life?
I think the best piece of advice comes from Ava Chandler Matthews: done is better than perfect. This can apply to motherhood or career. Sometimes we just need to get shit done, drop the pressure and move on. We’re all too busy to worry about perfection, and it also challenges this patriarchal narrative that women should look and behave a certain way. To hell with that.
My final question is more of an opportunity to say thank you, as I’m so grateful to be able to share these conversations with my community. I’m so passionate about helping other women feel more seen, inspired and nourished during this particular season of life—so I’d love to know, are there any women in your own community (or even your virtual community) who you are grateful for or would like to shout out?
Haylee Collins for everything she does with Howl magazine, Holly Wainwright from Mamamia for always being inside my brain when it comes to motherhood and politics on Mamamia Out Loud, Meg Mason for writing my favourite books, my postpartum doula The Living Doula (aka Charlotte Squires) for holding me during this tender time, my mum for being absolutely everything to me, and every single friend and family member that has dropped off a meal or checked in on me during this beautiful and tender time. And my daughter Posie. I have three brothers, and never thought I’d have a daughter. What an honour.
To find out more about Lucinda and subscribe to her Substack, click here.
Beautiful interview - thank you both x
This brought up so many memories of when my boys were brand new. Each one brought colossal shifts in the way I navigated motherhood. It took me three babies to come into my own as a mother, I think—when they were little, anyway. I feel like I emerged from the "thick of it" for a bit...until the teen years. And my goodness, I am definitely in it again. I think I'm finally beginning to understand that these patches come and go over the course of motherhood, some generally predictable, others very much dependent on our own journeys. As with life, I suppose. Thank you so much for this lovely interview, and also for the reminder to tend to my own needs.